27 comments

  • Hello, I am a descendant of John Weslie Hyde and am trying to find information about his family. He was born in South Carolina about 1927 died in Cobb County, Georgia about 1912. He was my 2nd Great grandfather. Do you have information about which Hyde line he descended from?

    Terry Gunn

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  • Terry, that’s a challenging question to answer. Usually we reply offline but I’d like to see if anyone can add to what we currently know. John Wesley Hide/Hyde was born circa 1827 in most likely Greenville but possibly Spartanburg, SC in 1827. There were two John Hydes born in those areas that year, and both appear in the 1850 census in different states. John Wesley Hyde married Mary A. Duvall/Davall in GA after 1855.

    One John Hide appears in the 1850 census for Greenville, SC, living with Thomas Hide and his wife Mary. This is a census that often appears in family trees for John Wesley, and is the right birth year, birth place and first name John. But he’s a different John. There’s evidence to suggest that he is John B. Hide/Hyde, son of Thomas, and that he continued to live in Greenville through at least 1880.

    John W. Hyde is believed to be the son of Hiram Hyde (various spellings for him, including Harmon Hede in 1830 census; appears that given name might have been Reubin/Reuben Hiram Hide) and Nancy Lenderman. John Hyde appears in the 1850 census for Division 19, Coweta, GA, living with the Nix family (Emily Lenderman Nix was a cousin of Nancy). Next door to the Nixes is a large “Lendoman” family, two Hyde families including Nancy and the children without Hiram, who may have moved to Forsyth, GA. Interestingly, Elizabeth Dyer, age 60, born NC is living by herself, and is most likely the mother of Sarah Dyer who married Jeremiah C. Hyde – so here you begin to see some of the connections to NC and possibly even further back.

    Hiram’s parents are thought to have been Noel Hide and Elizabeth Black, but census and land records get murky after about 1830, and if they were Baptist or Methodist, church records may not be available. Between 1790 and 1810, there were only about 5-10 families in 3 geographic areas in SC, so even the smallest amount of verifiable data about one single person from this time period would make a huge difference in sorting things out. The probate papers of Jacob Black (1839) suggest a connection between Jeremiah Hide, Jacob Hide, Charles Hide and “Reubin” Hide.

    We have not been able to trace this particular line back to the original immigrant. There’s a lot of information out there, but not all of it is accurate. Just to narrow the focus, there are a total of 5 Hide families in the 1790 census for SC. One spelled their name primarily “Hite” and another was geographically distant. So we are looking at three families, and their connection, if any, is unknown: Charles (b circa 1750), Stephen (also b circa 1750 in NC) and Comfort/Comford (b. circa 1750, go figure). Note that the “Hyde” spelling is sporadic in early records and does not appear in any SC censuses before 1830. If we can piece together the members of these three families, then we begin to break down brick walls for Austin Hyde, Ansel Hyde, the William Hyde who married Mary Bruner, and many others. Descendants of this line appear in the Hyde DNA Project under R M512.

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    • I asked this question and them promptly moved on, following the next shiny thing, and not checking for a reply. And what a great reply it is. I thank you so much for taking the time. This helps tremendously.

      Terry

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      • Terry, very glad to hear it! Two of our members are working on an article which touches briefly on the movements of this family and others, this will appear in the latest issue of our newsletter. Look for it this month! Also, and this goes out to everyone, there are two boxes underneath “Post Comment” that can be check marked at the bottom of the comment form. If you check these *before* hitting the post comment button, you’ll get an email notifying you of replies to your comment or new posts to the page. I’m off to finish up our listing for Humphrey Hide, which should be out in the next few days. —A

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  • Dan,
    Thanks for creating this great clearinghouse on Hydes. I am not one myself (at least no research to date has found any), but my Baker line was closely related to, and interacted closely with, a Hyde family in New York state in the 1800s.
    My brick wall is with my own family, and I thought perhaps the Hyde cousins might provide a clue to opening that up. In the process I figured I’d add to the knowledge of your own members with the Hyde research I’ve done.
    On 3 Dec 1806 a fellow name Eri Hyde married Pamelia Keyes in Essex, VT. I would guess he was born in the early 1780s. (My connection arises with Pamelia’s younger sister, Elizabeth, who married Samuel Baker there almost exactly a year later.) The Keyes girls were daughters of Joseph Annis Keyes and Eleanor Wood. The Keyes family had deep roots in Bolton, MA, and migrated to NH and then to VT in the final decade or two of the 18th century.
    Eri and Pamelia Hyde had four children, all probably born in the Burlington, VT, area. They migrated to Rushford, in south central NY, in about 1830.
    One son, James (born 6 Apr 1814), settled in New Hudson, just south of Rushford and married Fannie Keyes (relation unknown). They had three children, including a son, Perry.
    Eri and Pamelia’s other known son, Harmon Hyde (born 28 Jul 1807) took up the watchmaker and jeweler’s trade, “apprenticing” in Buffalo and established himself in that business in Rushford for the rest of his 60 years. He married Tabitha Gilman and they had nine children, including 4 sons, but few grandchildren and quite possibly no living descendants. My ancestor, Harmon’s younger first cousin and son of Samuel Baker, followed in Harmon’s professional footsteps and also lived and worked with Harmon in Rushford for a time.

    The mystery is Eri’s roots, which just might contain a clue as to the Bakers’. I have been able to find some geographic parallels with Heman Hyde, a noted early Mormon from New York state, but no discovered relation. Heman, a son of James, who was son of Nehemiah, was of a Hyde family originally from Stratford, CT.

    There was also a Hyde family from Lee, MA, which moved west around the same time, one member of which was the Albert Hyde who founded the Mentholatum Company. Again, no discovered relation.

    If you or any of your readers or contributors have clues, I would be most grateful. And of course, I’ll be glad to share what else I have about these Hyde families.

    Thanks again!

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    • Hi,

      You are in luck. We have a far amount of info on Eri Hyde.

      Eri Hyde b 1783, Poultney, VT, one of 8 children of James Hyde m Hannah Thatcher 3 Mar 1772. James is a direct descendant of Johnathan Hyde 1 (1626-1711). You can see this line at http://www.eg.bucknell.edu/~hyde/Hyde/Hyde%20Ancestors%20Long-with%20pics.pdf

      In the above document, Eri’s father James Hyde is James Hyde 5, son of Ebenezer Hyde4 and Mercy Thatcher. In 1771 or shortly there after, James Hyde5 and his brothers, Ebenezer,5 Lemuel5 and Timothy5 all move to Poultney, Vermont from Canterbury, CT.

      A lttile history, before 1771 this part of Vermont was held by Native Americans and no white settlers moved into the area. After the French and Indian War was over in 1763, the New Hampshire Crown Governor started selling tracts for new towns such as Poultney. Many people moved from Connecticut to “The Grants” later to be called Vermont including Ethan Allen of Green Mountain Boys fame. James Hyde’s brother Ebenezer Hyde (my ancestor) was a Lt. in Green Mountain Boys. Ethan Allen’s mother was Mary Baker Allen. Mary’s brother Remember Baker had a son Remember Baker. This Remember Baker, who was a first cousin, was a year older than Ethen Allen and a close friend and like a big brother to Ethan. Remember Baker was a key player in the Green Mountain Boys and the establishment of the country of Vermont. Few people know that Vermont was a separate country from about 1777 to 1791. Therefore, the Bakers were movers and shakers in Vermont in the late 1700s.

      Since Eri was born and raised in Poutney, VT, I would look for Bakers in History of Poultney [Vermont] by Joslin and Frisbie, originally printed in 1875. Book is available on line at https://books.google.com/books?id=lQWbXcCvZCQC&q=Samuel+Baker#v=snippet&q=Samuel%20Baker&f=false
      There is a record for Samuel Baker m Betsey Keyes 20 Dec 1807 in Essex, VT. This to us is a situation where you have to move forward, to the later censuses of Samuel and Betsey’s children, to confirm where both parents were born, then use places and ages to backtrack through census movements of Bakers and Keyes.

      Good luck in your hunt.

      Best regards,

      Dan C. Hyde

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      • Dan,

        I can’t thank you enough. You certainly have some impressive resources. Eri Hyde has been an enigma for some years, and I had been unable to trace his roots.

        I’ve long ago done the research you suggest on the Baker side, including Remember, et. al., and — although suggestive — I haven’t been able to find anything with that family or in Poultney. The eastern CT link doesn’t support any other hypotheses either. I wonder, though, whether Eri’s siblings — where they settled and who they married — might provide a clue. (Or not! Maybe the connection was with the Keyes family alone, who have also been difficult to trace.) Might you have an available source of information for that?

        You may already have the information on Eri and Pamelia’s family, but if not, I’ll be glad to share the details of what I have been able to assemble if it can help you or other Hyde researchers.

        Thanks again!

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  • Hi There all you wonderful Hydes,
    I am trying to trace my family lines however what i know is very little,
    My grandad passed away a few years ago and i know little about the people before him other than they were farmers in cheshire, and came to england from ireland during the potato fammine, my grandad was a wonderful man called Norman Hyde he got world records for tug of war, i was just wondering if anyone had any other helpful hints. many thanks in advance for any help you may be able to give
    Jodie x

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    • Jodie, I would look at FreeBMD and FamilySearch.org and start with searches using Norman’s full name and/or middle initial, in conjunction with his wife’s name and both Cheshire and the Irish town where he was born. He’s in the Guinness Book of World Records, 22nd and 24th editions. Feel free to email me directly when you have more information and we’ll see if we can assist further.

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  • Do you have any information relative to Austin Hyde (Hide) who I believe lived in Hall County Georgia but was most likely born in Pendleton, South Carolina in we think 1790, He may have been the father of William Christopher Hyde who was born in Hall County Georgia in 1847.

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  • Austin Hide married a widow in Pendleton but was not born there. He was the father of William Christopher Hyde who was born in Hall County in 1828. We’re processing information that Leah Latimer obtained on her visit to the GA Archives. More on that soon.

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  • So I have a mystery “Hyde”! He is my 3rd great grandfather and the very first I can find him is the 1830 Federal Census in Jackson, Washington Co NY With his name spelled Isram)between the ages of 30-40. I continue to find him there through the 1860 census, married to Mary Elizabeth Robertson. I believe he went to live with a married daughter after Mary died in 1865, bc that’s where he is in the 1870 census. Then zip-zero! No death info, nothing on find a grave. And I’ve looked on-line at the “Hyde” genealogy and can not find an “Iram Hyde” born in NH in the late 1790’s. Any guesses as to where he fits in? Parents, siblings….anything! OH! The other interesting thing….one state census says they had 7 children. So far I have found just 3 daughters….no SONS (for certain anyway!)

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    • June – Let’s start with what can be confirmed, and I know you’ve done much of this already. Iram Hyde did not marry Rachel Wellman or Zylpha Curtis, those were other men named Hiram Hyde. Coila Church records from NY State Library (Presbyterian, Cambridge, NY) show that on 25 Jan 1821, Iram Hyde and Mary Robertson, both of Jackson, Washington County, NY, were married by Rev Alexander Bullions. This is the same, somewhat controversial minister, born in Scotland, who later married Iram and Mary’s daughter Elizabeth Hyde to Scotsman David Skellie on 3 March 1842. One of their children was named Iram Hyde Skellie, the only other instance of that forename spelling occurring within a Hyde family that I’m able to find in the US.
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      The forename “Iram” as it is spelled was not a common name in the time period, but unfortunately it was not unusual *enough* that we can draw any conclusions from it. There was an Iram Woods born 1800 in Deering, Hillsboro, NH, also a John Iram Fassett born 1785 Winchester, Cheshire, NH. The name is misspelled often enough that searches including variants of Iram (Hiram, Isham, Isam, etc. as well as Hyde/Hide) are recommended. If you find a legal document confirming a middle initial or middle name, that will be especially helpful. For Iram to have been “of Jackson” by Jan 1820, he ought to be there in the 1820 census, but not as a head of household, most likely a farm hand, possibly a blacksmith. There are no Hide/Hyde heads of household in the vicinity of Cambridge or Jackson in Fed census 1820. The 1845 state census for Washington County did not survive, but 1825 and 1835 are available, just not online. Everything from 1855 onwards is available online. It’s not possible to link Iram Hyde, born in NH circa 1798, to any particular Hyde family without more information. His assertion of birth in NH in 1798 is very consistent (2 daughters conflicting death rec birthplace for him appears to be guesswork on the part of those supplying info, everything else is consistent). The local historical society page is here https://www.wchs-ny.org/index.php. You may want to contact the historians in Jackson and Cambridge to see if there are any further clues about Iram’s family https://www.wchs-ny.org/historians.php  
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      Mary’s father William Robertson, bought land in Cambridge in 1768 and this became part of Jackson, essentially on the border of both towns. Most of the early settlers came from Scotland, including this Presbyterian Robertson family. When William died, it looks as though Mary inherited two parcels, one of which she and Iram lived on and Mary’s part of the other they sold to one or more of her siblings, all of whom are listed in these documents. Genealogy for this branch of the Robertson family, Scotland to Washington County, NY, is very straightforward because of extensive land and will records.  https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:C7PH-2F2Mhttps://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-99WC-KLYK?i=266&cc=2078654&cat=226429
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      From Presbyterian Church records 1701-1970 Mary Hyde is in the roll of Communicants #39 on 10 Aug 1829. Her husband does not appear in Presbyterian church records other than their marriage record. From records, Woodlands Cemetery in Cambridge NY: Hyde, Mary, b. 1796, d. 1865, sp. Fran (sic) Hyde, par: Wm. Robertson, Elizabeth Fleming, Sec. B 169. We’d need to see the original record to be sure, but I don’t think “Fran” is an abbreviation for Francis but probably a misreading of “Iram”. In any event, he is not buried with her. He appears on the 1870 census in the household of youngest daughter Christiana. Indiana wasn’t officially recording death records at the time, so it’s possible that something might have appeared in a local newspaper or there may have been some mention in the records of Meadow Lake Church of Wolcott. There is a small cemetery behind the church, although this wouldn’t necessarily fit unless Iram embraced Presbyterianism. Christiana herself is buried in Meadow Lake Cemetery, which appears to be very large and only about 50% of the burials there appear online, so that’s another possibility.
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      There are fairly extensive paper trails on the three daughters so I’ll just mention that daughter Elizabeth Robertson Hyde (a viewable photo of her appears on Ancestry) married David Skellie. Margaret Hyde married Alfred Clark, eight children, 4 living by 1880, youngest is Libby Clark on 1880 census (she is mis-listed as “Mine Clark” because of a difficult-to-read Evangelical Lutheran marriage record (dataset 1781 – 1969). What it really says is that in 1894, Libby Clark, of Mina, Chautauqua, age 22, parents Alfred Clark and Margaret Hyde, married Joshua A LaDue of Brocton, NY, age 29, parents Uriah Slayton LaDue and Mary Jane Morgan, names filled in from Buffalo church records. Libby most likely died in childbirth, as Joshua LaDue married Catherine Mason in 1897). Iram and Mary’s youngest daughter Christiana Hyde married Oliver Wilson and a good writeup of them appears in the book “Counties of White and Pulaski, Indiana, Historical and Biographical” by Weston Arthur Goodspeed: https://books.google.com/books?id=8i8VAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q=hyde&f=false
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      You mention that one of the state censuses shows that Iram and Mary had 7 children (I don’t know how the question was phrased, but early child mortality rates were high). The censuses covering these years are consistent, three daughters and two sons, so any other children would have died quite young. We can’t trace the sons, although there’s a good chance that you’ll be able to find something at the historical society that will tie this family together, so I will mention that there are two likely candidates. The youngest, William Robertson Hyde, was born in Washington County in 1828 and possibly named after his paternal grandfather. He married Lucy Matilda Warner (who went by Matilda as her mother’s name was also Lucy) around 1850 in Troy, Rensselaer, NY. Their eldest daughter was named Mary Elizabeth Hyde. I stress that there is no information online that ties William Robertson Hyde directly with Iram and Mary, simply that existing information supports the possibility, as other Washington County Hyde families were reviewed as part of the process.  
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      Iram and Mary’s eldest son may have been Joseph Hyde, whom Mary may have been pregnant with when she and Iram married. There were several other Hyde families in Washington County, and no shortage of men named Joseph or Josephus Hyde. So it’s possible that Joseph was of a different Hyde family and just happened to live very close to Iram and Mary. The other local Hyde families are more extensively researched and again, don’t appear to have a Joseph born circa 1821. We see him as a blacksmith in the 1849 Gazetteer, in an area very close to where Iram and Mary lived, and in the 1850 census married to Nancy with children William age 5 and Jane age 1, with presumably her mother, Jane Conner, and brother William Conner.
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      Here’s where it gets interesting: there are two Joseph Hydes in the 1850 census, one in Jackson and one in Troy, Rensselaer, NY. The Troy census was taken a few months later than the Jackson one. There’s only one Joseph in the 1855 state census. At first I dismissed the idea that both Josephs might be the same person, as first names of family members are different. Joseph of Troy’s wife is Martha Ann Conner, her mother is Margaret Conner. Son William is age 5 born in PA. Both Martha and her mother are listed as born in Dutchess County, NY. I located them in earlier censuses and part of the extended family lived in PA, where son William is said to have been born. There’s no question that this Colonel Joseph Hyde of Rensselaer was born in Washington County and lived on a farm there until age 17 or 19, trained as a blacksmith, moved to Troy, married Martha Ann at some point, not clear if first or second wife, joined the army and died in Sawtelle, Los Angeles CA in 1900. There’s a great deal of information out there about him, including a brief autobiography. Unfortunately, it doesn’t answer the question of whether he and Joseph Hyde, blacksmith of Washington County married to Nancy, are one and the same. The New York Genealogical and Biographical Society has guides in their store for each of the counties, including Washington, that give concise outlines of what resources are available and where they can be found. Look for Nancy and other Conners, and check probate records at the Surrogate’s Court. https://www.newyorkfamilyhistory.org/   

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  • I have an ancestor who is the apparent uncle of my great grandmother Lucina Tarrant (1845-1923), who married Robert Randall Story Munson (1841-1917). His name was Charles S. Hyde; the little I know of him is that he was born about 1821, was a sailor on the ‘USSS Brooklyn’ during the Battle of Mobile Bay, and was the half-brother of John Tarrant (abt. 1820-1864), owner of a prominent pharmaceutical firm. I would like to find out whether Tarrant’s wife Lucina was the sister (or half-sister) of Charles S. Hyde, and who their parents might be. My name is Charles Hyde Smith; I was named after my grandfather Charles Hyde Munson, who in turn was very likely named after Charles S. Hyde, likely his great uncle (or half-uncle). –CHS

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  • Charles –

    (For anyone waiting on Richard the Pirate or Humphrey, I have things coming in about a week or two.)
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    There’s no way to connect the Tarrants and Hydes with other similarly named families without more information. Here are some suggestions:
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    1. James and John Tarrant were said to be brothers. Documentation suggests but does not prove that they came over from England. Tarrant is a fairly common name, and without specific birth or christening dates, they can’t be linked to any other Tarrant families in England, Ireland or New York. James Tarrant apparently died unmarried and childless (so who are the people with him in the 1840 census in ward 3, if this is correct James?) and the pharmacy was taken over by younger brother John. I see the obits for James, John and Lucina, but I’m not able to associate them with any particular religion or church. If you can, try to find out more about their religious affiliations so we can figure out which church records to search. John was married twice, the first time possibly in NYC Ward 3 and the second time possibly in Flushing. Confirmed birth or baptism dates for any of these people, including Charles S Hyde, would be a game-changer.
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    2. Contact the Greenwood Cemetery in Brooklyn https://www.green-wood.com/greenealogy/ and get all the names, dates and other information for everyone buried in lot 6136 section 77. As far as I can tell, all of lot 6136 section 77 are related. Find out who initially purchased the section and get as much information as you can, old addresses, you name it. Lucina’s mother or grandmother, Mary A Hyde, is buried there. We know of this relationship because of the 1855 NY state census where she’s living with John and Lucina’s daughter, Lucina Munson. At Greenwood, there’s also a “Seaman Hyde” buried. There’s no date of birth, so we don’t know what his relationship to Mary and Lucina might be. Seaman is an old Long Island surname, but I’m not able to locate any type of relationship between the Hyde and Seaman families in an appropriate time period. There were Hide/Hydes in Long Island (around 1775ish there was a William Hide who married Clarina Lucina Brass/Bross, for example). There is a website specifically for Long Island genealogy, but since it appears to be a paid site, I’d gather as much information as you can prior to subscribing. Keep in mind, there might not be any connection to Long Island Hydes.
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    3. Do you know Charles S Hyde’s middle name, any other family members besides his sister/half-sister, confirmed year of birth, where he lived, or where he might have been buried? Where is he referenced in estate docs? I glanced online at the docs but didn’t see any reference to him. The Charles S Hyde born 1821 Civil War record shows him signing up in Oswego, quite some distance from the city. There are about a dozen or so Charles Hydes who could fit the bill, so need more info.

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  • Thanks for your remarks, which I didn’t see right away. I will make the investigations you suggest.

    Regarding some of your questions… I don’t think the three Tarrant siblings (James, Eliza and John) all came over from England; there are several mentions of John’s birthplace as being England in the census records of his family and children (though there are also some of him being born in New York), whereas all references I’ve seen to his siblings’ birthplace put them as being born in New York. Further, the 1855 NY Census shows Eliza as living in Ward 8 with a cousin Cornelia Gildersleeve and, more importantly an ‘s-brother’ named William Duncan (who also appears in the 1850 US Census in James’s record). If ‘s-brother’ means ‘step-brother’ this is a useful clue; it suggests Eliza’s father Tarrant-the-unknown-elder may have returned to England from the U.S. to remarry and did, to a woman of last name Duncan who already had a family; together they had a son John A(lexander). Some (short) time later the father Tarrant probably died, and had John sent to America, where there is evidence he grew up with Charles S. Hyde, probably in the James Hyde household: C. S. Hyde was sought to testify regarding a contesting of John A.’s will in late 1864, and eventually did on 27 Jan 1865. From that testimony: “[I am] a fireman on board the United States steam sloop of war Brooklyn… I am his brother in law. I have known him about thirty eight years [i.e., since about 1826], ever since I was five or six years of age [so C.S. was born about 1821-2]… we were both brought up together and went to school together.” This suggests Charles & John A. actually grew up in the same household (of James Hyde, abt. 1792-1875), where ostensibly John A. first met his future wife Lucina Hyde (whose last name I am now certain of, for the reasons given in my Ancestry entry for Lucina Hyde), born perhaps in June 1822 (or by a Census accounting, abt. 1820). I well remember my mother’s mention of the ‘original Charles Hyde’, and his connection to the ‘Brooklyn.’ 31 December 1864 is only a few weeks before his Will testimony, and several months after Mobile Bay, so it would not have been surprising had he mustered out by then. Also, there were two distinct Charles Hydes who enlisted in 1864, by two enlistment records, and the second one came from Brooklyn and was of just the right age.

    I have not gotten anywhere trying to find records connecting William Duncan to the Tarrants. Charles S. Hyde also figures in a contesting of Eliza Tarrant’s will in 1862; from this it turns out that he worked for a while for John A. at his ‘farm’ in Flushing. He was also named as the brother in law of Mary Ann Barrett in one of the two will litigations (I don’t have them handy), and according to her his wife died “three years the 25th of next April”…”his small children are boarding with my mother and me”–so that suggests Hyde’s wife had been a sister of Mary Ann Barrett (but I have so far not been able to trace either the name of the wife or Mary Ann Barrett–and is Barrett her maiden or married name?).

    The famous Hydes derived from Thomas Hooker’s (who by the way is himself a 9th generation great-grandparent of mine) Hartford group, who founded Norwich CT, are apparently not related to James Hyde or the purported son Charles S.; only three of that generation’s Norwich Hydes made it to New York by about 1800, and they are well known genealogically–no apparent connections (though one of the three was also a James–James Nevins–and apparently both he and James 1792-1875 attended the Allen Street Church in N. Y. and had their children baptized there–and both had a wife named Mary!) So the James Hyde 1792-1875 is apparently of different derivation, though he may be a relative somehow of the better known lines.

    Unfortunately I do not know CSH’s middle name (though the abbreviation is definitely ‘S.’, appearing many times in the wills & litigations and a couple of places elsewhere, though there are also a couple of mis-transcriptions to ‘L.’), or have a definite record of birth or death. There are, by the way, 9 DNA markers (through the Ancestry test), ranging from 8 to 171 cM, connecting me to both James Hyde & Mary (Wright) Hyde through present-day relatives (also 5 DNA markers with Mary’s father Daniel Wright, ranging from 8 to 171 cM, and 8 markers with her mother Phebe Bennett Wright–note there is a Henry Bennet d. 1801 in the Hyde Family Cemetery in Glen Cove, where James Hyde & his wife Mary are buried; also that Phebe’s father Willem Bennet died in Oyster Bay, and that ‘Phebe’ was the name of an early child of James & Mary Hyde).

    I so far have found no evidence that if John A. was born in England and then came to the U.S. as a young boy, that when he did he lodged with his older (half-?) brother or sister.

    The people with James Tarrant in the 1840 Ward 3 census would be: male10-15 (unknown), male30-40 (himself), female20-30 (Eliza, James’ sister); in the 1850 Ward 3 census: James (45), Eliza (36), William Duncan (48?), and Mary, perhaps a servant.

    This is an interesting puzzle, no? –CHS

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    • Charles –
      DNA might suggest that you’re in the right ballpark, but autosomal matches can be tricky, particularly when it involves ancestors who were born approximately 200 years ago, which is too far outside the test’s range to have much significance. On paper, James Hyde and Mary Wright did not have a son Charles, and this can be confirmed by cross referencing with censuses and other records (not sure I have the correct “Jas Hyde” in the 1830 census but everything else seems consistent). James Hyde was born in Queens, NY 5 Oct 1794. He fought in the War of 1812 and had a military pension. He appears in city records in 1819, transporting goods as a cartman, and his sons were all cartmen at one time or another. “The Wright Family of Oyster Bay, Long Island…” compiled by Howland Delano Perrine, available online at Hathitrust and here https://www.seekingmyroots.com/members/files/G007529.pdf begins with Mary’s parents on page 105. I’d prefer to cite Perrine’s original source but can’t find it outside of a paywall.
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      DANIEL WRIGHT (DANIEL, 79), b. 1819; m. Phebe (William and
      Elizabeth (Carpenter) Bennett, of Long Island. (Carpenter Family,
      D. H. Carpenter, 1901, p. 95.) Issue:
      #206 Mary. b. June 5, 1797; d. May 24, 1865; m. James Hyde,
      b. Oct. 5, 1794; d. Sept. 10, 1875. Issue: James; Leonard; Daniel; Phebe Ann, m. Charles Yarrington, of New
      York City; Mary Eliza, m. Marvin Pitman, of New Orleans, La.; Loretta, m. John Genot, of New York City.
      *
      So where does Charles fit in? I think you have the right extended family just not the right branch.. Military records either through Nat’l Archives or NHHC https://www.history.navy.mil/  might help clarify. I think there’s a fairly good chance that Charles connects to some of the Hydes of Long Island because of Seaman Hyde buried in the Tarrant family’s lot. You will need to search under “Hide” and Hyde for early records, and I think Henry appears as “Hede” in one record. It’s been a long time since I looked at the Long Island Hydes. Be very careful with online genealogies for this family because people have run in all sorts of wishful directions with them. (John Hyde of Woodplumpton, England was not even distantly related to this family. Bennett Hide/Hyde born in NY circa 1772 is *not* the same Bennett Hyde born in NC or SC circa 1772. Henry Hide/Hyde born Long Island, NY is *not* Henry of Tuscumbia, AL.)
      *
      John Hyde of Long Island, New York and his descendents, compiled by Edson Barlow, is online here, once you’ve logged into Family Search: https://www.familysearch.org/library/books/records/item/125894-john-hyde-of-long-island-new-york-and-his-descendents-with-supplemental-material-on-descendants-of-the-hyde-and-hults-hulse-families-in-port-washington-ny The caveat is that this information was compiled well before scores of documents were available online, so there are some errors and omissions. Barlow refers to the wife of William Hyde as “Carolina Lousiana Brass born in North Carolina”. When one looks at the marriage record at St Georges Church, she was actually Clarina Lucina Brass, daughter of Pieter Bras/Broas of Hempstead, Long Island. If Barlow was working from a family Bible, as he says, then there would be no reason for her name and birthplace to be so obscured. This may be an example of anti-German sentiment after the wars, possibly the Bible itself was altered, it’s not clear. According to a baptism record, Pieter Bras was born in Jamaica, Queens, in 1714, son of Jan and Sara Bras. Jan was most likely one of the early Dutch settlers. Correcting the record somewhat is Colonial Families of Long Island, NY and CT: Being the Ancestry and Kindred of Herbert Furman Seversmith by Herbert Furman Seversmith, Vol 1, pg 502 https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=wu.89063148555&view=1up&seq=520&q1=Hyde 
      *
      Based on the information that you’ve provided, I believe that this is may be the correct Charles Hyde in the 1850 census https://www.ancestry.com/discoveryui-content/view/7235038:8054?_phsrc=ESp301&_phstart=successSource&gsfn=charles+&gsln=hyde&ml_rpos=10&queryId=1d69d75d7fdd72ffa54d740339a4c1a5
      *
      Charles Hide and wife Catherine (Barrett) Hyde appear in death cert of daughter Lucy Rooney https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2WPX-PDK
      *
      Charles Hyde, wife Catherine and two children, William and Lucina, appear in 1860 census https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-9BSX-6KY?i=185&cc=1473181&personaUrl=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AMC4Z-YGN
      *
      It is intriguing, yes, and I hope, at some future time, to hear of your progress.

      Reply ↓

  • Thanks for your continuing interest. I did get some information from Green-Wood. If you give me your email address, I will forward what they sent. It was a little disappointing, but did prop up several things. About a dozen of my close Munson & Tarrant ancestors are buried in 6136-77. William Duncan, supposedly a step-brother of John Tarrant’s sister Eliza (abt. 1813-1859) is as well, as is Eliza(beth) herself. So too is: (1) a Mary A. Hyde (d. 1871; age 82 in 1870), who the 1870 Census shows as living with the family of Robert Story Munson, my grt-grndfather. This is interesting; she is of the right age to be either a sister or aunt of James Hyde (d. 1875); (2) a Leonard Hyde (incorrectly transcribed as ‘Seaman’ from the written record) who was buried in 1854.

    The Charles Hyde you mention at the end of your note above is not the right one, being born about nine years too late. The other one, from the 1850 Census and living with the Sexton family, has a much better chance, his occupation is given as ‘druggist’–though his given age of 25 is also off by about three or four, as his enlistment & will litigation words suggests he was born about 1821. John Tarrant, as it turns out, was born 25 Oct 1818, in England, according to the Green-Wood records, and his wife Lucina Hyde either in June 1819/20 or June 1822/23 (I’m checking on this)–her obituary says she was 34 at death in 1857, but the Green-Wood record (which is a transcription…) says 37, while the 1850 Census says she was 30 at that point. My JT page is at:
    https://www.ancestry.com/family-tree/person/tree/154792288/person/222044744324/facts ; my LH page is at: https://www.ancestry.com/family-tree/person/tree/154792288/person/222044744338/facts

    Meanwhile… James Hyde d.1875 is buried in the ‘Hyde Family Cemetery’ in Glen Cove, as is wife Mary d.1865. Also buried there is Henry Bennet d.1801 and Phebe Crooker d.1861, whoever they are… Though I notice you mention above a Bennet Hyde. Ostensibly Henry and Phebe are somehow connected to James & Mary. My JH page is at: https://www.ancestry.com/family-tree/person/tree/154792288/person/222414626351/facts My MW page is at: https://www.ancestry.com/family-tree/person/tree/154792288/person/222414627539/facts

    James and Mary’s early children were baptized at the Allen Street Church between about 1814 (when Mary was perhaps 17) and around 1817 or 19; but then there is a big gap all the way to 1829, 1830, & 1832 (& maybe one in 1824), and then children born (I see no baptism records) from 1834-1846 (for the last, Mary would have been about 49…)

    Other leads: (1) the 1855 NY Census shows Eliza Tarrant, sister of John A., living in NYC with ‘cousin’ Cornelia Gildersleeve (age 21) & s-brother William Dumcan (50), both born in New York. (2) per the wills litigation session of 20 Oct 1864, Charles S. Hyde is described as having been married as of 1862, & “working with Mr. Tarrant on the fram at Flushing, & resided up there on the farm…his wife died three years the 25th of next April”…his small children are boarding with my mother and me”–so said Mary Ann Barrett, who described herself as the “brother in law” of Charles S. Hyde (so perhaps one of her siblings married one of Charles S.’s). (3) Again in the litigation, Alonzo B. (R.?) Wright, a Whitestone resident, carriage maker & United States assessor, said he had known John Tarrant for around 4 years 1860-64–this person probably related to James Hyde’s wife Mary (Wright), whose parents were Daniel Ridge Wright (d. 1819) & Phebe Bennett (d.aft.1819). The Wrights are a bit easier to trace out, all from the Oyster Bay area.

    I’m not getting anywhere with John Tarrant’s parents, except coming up with a few theories. If John was born in England in 1818 and his brother James in the U.S. abt. 1805 & sister Eliza in the U.S. abt. 1813, then perhaps John’s father lost his wife, or his mother her husband, and the one or other went back to England in the mid or late 1810s & remarried before John was born (& James &/or Eliza were actually half-siblings of his). From the 1865 will litigation we get that Charles Hyde & John Tarrant both “grew up together and went to school together” which suggests they actually were in the same household. We don’t know who James & Eliza were living with in the 1810s or early 20s. Perhaps either John’s parents did not come back to the U.S. with him, and he was placed in the James Hyde household (because of earlier friendships or relations). Charles and Mary Hyde fit into the births gap, or perhaps they were illegitimate or adopted into the family–and maybe the last children of James & Mary Hyde were not actually their own either, all being adopted (Mary would have been about 37, 41, 45 & 49 at their birth, possible, but pretty late).

    Note that I have a fair number of DNA marker hits with living descendants of all of these direct-line grandparents, going back to Phebe & Daniel Wright, and James Hyde.

    This is looking more and more like its doable. It might be more convenient if we continued this directly through email; I keep forgetting to check in on the Hyde site. –CHS

    Reply ↓

    • Charles – No worries! Longer messages sometimes fall into automatic moderation, I approved manually, above. So, it looks like you’ve made quite a bit of progress. One thing about censuses, take ages with a grain of salt. There are a wide variety of reasons the information in them can be off. NY Genealogical and Biographical Society might be able to point you in the right direction.

      Reply ↓

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